Desire and Ill Will - Sample Dialogue 2
Thank you for that great introduction to what is going on in your life! A recurring theme I hear is to "push away" that which you don't like - I would like to explore that a little more. You listed many instances where that seems to come up: your friends, your Mum, etc.
If your relationship with your Mum is where reactions take over now and again, and is someone who is in your life regularly, I suggest we explore that. What does she typically say or do that says "demanding, manipulative, condescending" to you? What sorts of interactions give rise to the reactions which you later on have to let go of?
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Her conditioning is a strict middle class background. She acts like a Victorian matriarch.
If I haven't seen her in a couple of weeks she'll say "I used to see my mother weekly", "you like your friends more than us", "I didn't bring you up to be... (Replace dots with whatever is in her mind)"
She doesn't get that I work and have friends, so if I have a gap at work I might say "why not come over Friday morning for a coffee then" and she'll say "oh no that's when we do our food shopping".
So you get the picture, bless her, she’s old fashioned, stuck in her ways, hasn't realised the world and society has moved on.
As to what sorts of interactions give rise to the reactions which you later on let go of, it’s the sort of thing above. All of them I let go of really. Just not quickly enough.
I know she’s just a being who is suffering cos she doesn't know the truth, she doesn't even want to let go of the old fashioned values she holds to even make the mundane easier. I love her. She just frustrates me :-) .
When I'm in full flow I have the clarity and wisdom to handle her, when I'm not I get frustrated and let it go later. I just wanna stay with the ability to not to bite in the first place.
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Sorry your Mum is in a rather stuck place. I can imagine how difficult it must be to take in what she says and does, especially if you aren't in the right mental space to watch your own reactions and/or otherwise let it all slide past.
What I would like you to do is briefly list some typical thoughts, stories, emotions, sensations, etc. that arise when you have these sorts of difficult interactions with your Mum. It may be helpful to identify where the reactions are centered, using statements like "I think, I feel, my body reacts by" etc. If feelings of guilt or other reactions over responding this way arise, that's OK, but try to stay with what are the direct results of such encounters. I hope this doesn't feel like prying - the intent is to get some clarity on what exactly happens for/with you when she says or does the things she does. This could be going on memory, or perhaps running a couple of the above scenarios around your mind a bit to get the juices flowing a bit :-)
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I thought I'd check out the 'Mum stuff' this afternoon, but then something happened, which might give a truer picture of the selfing patterns than trying to work from longer memory...
I was talking to a friend who I’ve talked about seeing through the illusion of the self to. They seemed to think my experience was artificially happy. That I wasn't really engaging with vedana and sensations (what was happening in experience until that point was just happiness, what can I say?!) Then a whole load of selfing kicked in around a desire to be understood & to be liked, it felt like heart pain around my friend not "getting me" then irritation about why do I have to change what I say to suit them? This came with a gut / belly whoosh upwards. Feeling alone, not understood. Then poor-me'ing thoughts that I'm a failure... knowing that my life is my practice but I'm never good enough... That was the story I think.
An old one that comes from dealings with my Dad actually. Oh golly...now this moment... Crying is happening, typing is happening. Sighing is happening. Tears stopped... Yum yuk, smile, sigh!! :-/
On one hand I know it’s all irrelevant storytelling on the other in this moment, in the next it can feel so real and therefore painful!
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Thanks for this - sorry you had such a tough day :-( For better or for worse, something this raw and fresh, and likely not the first occurrence, might be a good point of departure. While the old "self" is long gone, this is all the exquisite crap that went into it, is so strong that it once felt that there HAD to be a self who owned it.
It seems very clear from your description what you didn't like about your meeting with your friend, and also what you would have wanted that would have made it go much differently. Might it boil down to "she's not getting me"? There's certainly a lot of details involved, but if there was one thing you wanted from her (and maybe your Mum and Dad too?) that wasn't the case, it's that she's doesn't get you? They don't get you? Is that a good gut-level summary of what you're looking for in these sorts of situations? If not, how would you summarize it in 6 words or less??
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I would say that yes "she/they don't get me" or "she doesn't understand me" is the phrase.
Underlying it is of course the view that if they don't understand me they won't love/like 'me'.
I also saw a pattern around the slightly neurotic storytelling that happened afterwards, the tizz I got into, making mountains out of mole hills. She said I don't always seem at ease with myself, and I said that's because I find watching myself selfing so painful.
Anyway, so whilst at one level I feel a bit of a twerp, I see a pattern of behaviour and a desire to break it! :-)
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So, whether it was this last situation, or perhaps with your Mum etc., when you initially become aware "they don't get me", what is it that seems to happen somewhere inside? Before the thoughts, the physical sensations, the stories, the image, the emotions: what feels like is leading to all that? It may feel like there is a button getting pushed, a program that runs, a trigger that gets pulled. How would you describe it?
That's not to say that it would show up on an x-ray, but what sort of process or thing gets activated when you first realize that people aren't getting you? It's as if you walk into a situation with that "thing" somewhere, ready to activate or run, and as soon as you become aware of people not getting you, it trips and away you go :-)
So, how would you complete the sentence "When I see/hear that people don't get me, it's as if...". Maybe gently bring up the situation with your friend just to get a feel of what seems to initially happen.
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This is quite difficult!..... But I think... a well worn groove in my brain triggers a surge of pure panic and pain starts in my core heart / gut... Or maybe it's the other way round!?
I do know there is unpleasant vedana then an emotional response. I'm just not sure whether thoughts or body stuff releases first!?
I'm with Mum tomorrow, so I will see if any irritation arises, and see if there are minor effects I can spot.
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Glad you were able to identify the sense that there is a well-worn groove in the brain that leads to everything starting up. Be very curious how it is with your Mum, and if that same sense of a well-worn groove resonates if/when she says or does something that strikes you negatively.
The intent is to get a sense of what initially happens, regardless of the situation (Mum, friend, etc.), such that the thoughts, physical sensations, etc. start up and in some cases more or less take over.
So, please let me know how it goes with your Mum.
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Well with my Mum generally there is less anxiety, it's just "oh here she goes again"...
True to form she had a couple of negative outbursts ... But was on reasonably good behaviour ;-).
So I noted to myself "oh dear", discomfort in my diaphragm, like it ceased up in defence! Then there was a slightly rising "ire" in my sternum / throat. But I didn't react... Well not externally.
I will watch out for my response in other situations tomorrow.
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Thanks for the report about the visit with your Mum. I suggest we look deeper into this, as it is a life-long relationship that continues to have an impact. As you've put it, when your Mum doesn't get you, it's as if a well-worn pattern of neurons fire.
OK – let’s do some looking :-) Please read this through before sitting down so you have the gist of it.
Find a quiet place, take a comfortable seat, close your eyes, and relax a bit. Then, bring the thought “she doesn't get me” to mind to get the sense of it, maybe let the thoughts and stories start up just a little bit around a typical scenario: allow it to be current but not overwhelming. Hold in your experience “she doesn't get me” that goes against what you want. Yes, that issue :-)
Then, patiently but persistently, search within what is simply happening in experience for the well-worn pattern of neurons that fires that seems like it's in there somewhere. That's the ‘thing’ that starts up when you notice her (or anyone else) not getting you, the reason you have reacted in the past, why even now you are probably reacting a fair bit. Given the circumstances, that she doesn't get you, why are your reactions necessary? The reactive responses predictably start up, so what seems like a well-worn pattern of neurons must be in there somewhere.
Please look for the pattern of neurons itself, the thing itself, rather than it being a cognitive or abstract exercise, and try to pinpoint exactly where it is and what it is. It’s not words or images associated with the issue: if those come up, you haven't found the well-worn pattern of neurons, but only the reactions coming from it being fired.
If the thoughts, emotions, feelings, bodily reactions, etc., do start to come up, that's OK - just know that you are going underneath them to what is causing them, past the stories, emotions and words. The only thing happening here is that she doesn't get you: everything else is in response to that.
Back off a little if the stories and emotions make it difficult to see past them, if staying with the basic sense experience (the initial thought and the associated physical raw sensations) is difficult.
Don't just cognitively dismiss there actually being a well-worn pattern of neurons – it certainly seems like there is one in there somewhere, no?
Maybe run “she doesn't get me” through your mind a few times, and search for why it is you have to respond in any certain way, why that statement means something in particular to you. It may feel like mild torture, or may seem like you want to scream “but... but… she doesn't get me!!”.
Just keep coming back to this basic fact: she doesn't get you. Why react? Where is that well-worn pattern of neurons within what is simply happening in experience?
Search for as long as you can, or as long as it takes, maybe taking a break. Maybe come back to it tomorrow.
Looking deeply and patiently, what do you find?
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I’m not sure my Mum causes enough anxiety these days! However, I’ve sat with those thoughts as suggested. AND I have also run some other scenarios around an ex.
All I notice is a tension arising in my diaphragm area, and also a tension in my head at the back, just above the occiput. Then the stories arise.
I notice mild arising selfing anxiety as I type ... “have I noticed what she wanted? have I understood? etc etc” and that triggers the same areas, tension in my diaphragm and possibly in the back of my head!
I will keep looking!
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Thanks for this, and the initiative to look in other issues as well :-)
As you reflect on/review those situations, there are physical symptoms, then the stories kick in. However, the well-worn pattern of neurons was not found, ya? Was there anything that inherently connected what was actually happening (recalling this situation or that) and any subsequent reaction (physical sensations, then stories, etc.)?
A question I would like to check out with you: is there a part of you that is holding back on responding to these situations? From what you've said, these situations provoke strong responses, at least in the moment. Is it your way to measure your responses to people and situations? For purposes of this inquiry, please allow yourself to fully respond, even if that is something you tend to abstain from: we're looking for the way to finally be done with it all, not just set it aside or tamp it down.
Perhaps try this with the issues around your father, about which tears welled up the other day Running "he didn't get me" or another thing he failed to say or do may be more useful. Looking back, what did you want him to say or do that wasn't the case? Let it all out - let it trigger whatever it might trigger. Intoning that phrase, where is the well-worn pattern of neurons that dictate how you could or should respond to him, even going on memory?
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I’m not sure what I’m looking for? re ‘well-worn pattern of neurons’.
I mean, as stated already, I found an area in the rear of my head that tensed – if you are looking for a physical part of the brain, and there might also be a ping behind my left brow with the unpleasant vedana ...and yet I doubt that is what you mean... and yet you say I’m looking for something before the physical symptoms kick in?
[email protected]
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Sorry this is not quite clear yet - you're not the first to report this :-)
The inquiry is to look into what happens when potentially upsetting experiences arise. There is the initial experience (what someone says or does), and then there is your reaction to it. Ideally, it would all be water off a duck's back :-) However, for those sorts of situations where you have strong responses, the intent is to take in what is happening (what they are saying or doing), and see if you can find anything within what is simply happening in experience that dictates or even influences how you should respond.
Using a handle like a 'well-worn pattern of neurons' as you referred to it can make it a more tangible inquiry. Or, if it suits you, as it did me, I just looked for the 'reason' why I should be responding in any particular way to the situation. In any event, the inquiry is about looking within what is simply happening in experience for the 'thing' that is dictating your response. It's not a thing that will show up on an x-ray, but it nevertheless seems like there is something that takes your basic experience (what others say and do) and leads you towards craving and aversion, longing and anger, etc. Attached is a summary of where we've been and some other observations about it, which may be helpful.
You've described a difficult experience with a friend, and also the tears that came up when recalling what your past relationship with your Dad was like. It's just words in an interview, memories that come and go: why do you react to them? Don't dismiss those responses or say "I'm over it now" - will similar experiences not arise again? Let the issue be alive for this inquiry.
When someone doesn't get you, where is the reason, the well-worn pattern of neurons, or whatever you might call it, that dictates your response? Keep the experience of what they say and/or do in mind to keep the issue alive, but instead of going on to the reactions (physical sensations, stories, etc.), stay right with "they don't get me" and look within what is simply happening in experience for why it is you are reacting.
Another suggestion is to be more exact about what it is that they are not doing or saying. In the case of the friend, you may have wanted her to say "I understand" but she didn't. So, when she doesn't/didn't say "I understand", that's what triggers the well-worn pattern of neurons. This is more exact than "she doesn't get me", which is more of a summary and inference than what she did or didn't say.
So, the suggestion is to use "She/He didn't/doesn't say..." when working with her or your Dad's past statements that still hurt, etc.
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I have found a lot of resistance over the last 2 or 3 days to emotionally engaging with any of the scenarios! Some resistance has been thoughts of “what do you want to do a ‘poor me’ for?” and other times it has been a physical refusal to allow emotion to come – a resistance to tears – yet I am usually easily moved to tears. So it’s quite interesting to see the resistance.
Anyway, there is a view here that “I’m not good enough” (in my eyes and anyone else’s), that I have had so many opportunities and I have achieved an OK level at whatever, but not excelled - which I have probably had the ability to do – due to lack of confidence and self belief. Therefore I have a view that in my eyes and everyone else’s that I’ve wasted my opportunities and therefore I’ve “failed”!...typical ‘me’ approach... let’s just take the extreme beat one’s self up mode, and go from perhaps ‘could have done better’ to ‘failed’ Smile (rolls eyes at self!)
Ok so... thinking of my relationship with Dad... it didn’t matter how many exams I passed, how much I achieved... he always showed more love to my sister. ... anyway the stories have also led to lots more feeling of failure and not being believed. (Sorry, I don’t suppose you wanna hear this rubbish – but I’m not sure it will make sense otherwise)
To answer your suggestion below "She/He didn't/doesn't say..." it would be “S/he doesn’t say s/he loves me”. I think wanting to be loved is all I want at the root of it all, that includes loving myself, because I don’t have enough. Because the view above says “Why would they love me? I’ve failed/I’m not good enough”.
I’m not sure I’m there yet. I will keep playing the scenarios through.
Any thoughts?
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Thanks for this - glad that you are able to identify the resistance. And the history is important, so please don't worry about it being rubbish :-)
It sounds like "He didn't (doesn't) say he loves me" is the crux of it. A lot of stories might get kicked up about why that is, what that says or confirms is about you, why he is/was justified or not, etc. - try to let the stories, associated images and so forth slide by or arise and fall, and stay with what the basic sensate experience is, the fact: he's not saying he loves you. This is not to undervalue it: it's clearly important. But that's what's happened, what's happening.
You want(ed) him to say he loves you, and that's not the case: so what? Where is the pattern of neurons that dictates how you have to or should respond to that?
You're doing great - this all sounds very good!
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So is it possible there is anything below this apart from ego?
I'm still looking!
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Thanks for checking in :-) Glad you are still with it.
Can you clarify what you mean by "is there anything below this apart from ego?"?
I wonder if you are using the old ego-based processes as a catch-all, whereby it might end up being a "thing" that is superimposed on this inquiry. It's tough to tell, but you seem to be looking for an explanation, something that IS there, if only in an abstract sense.
Instead, try to keep it to "is there anything below this?"
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I had my birthday on Saturday and didn’t want to look at painful things, especially as my Dad came down for the day and took me out and was lovely, and clearly does love me. I could see that he’s just a silly human playing out his silly conditioning the same as the rest of us. But since then I’ve been procrastinating! I aimed to set aside time to reflect upon all the situations...and then... resistance to looking has been getting in the way big time! e.g. “I’m happy, why do I want to get upset?”, “It’s all just poor me-ing, you know it’s only a story” etc etc
And you were right I was using the ego as a catch-all. I don’t think there is anything below wanting to be loved, by my Dad, or in any of the situations. But I’m not sure if that’s true or just a conceptual belief because I’m holding out from the truth... so I do need to really sit and run them all through more.
I will go and do it right now!
Be back in a bit
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I think the well-worn hardwired pattern is... just to tamp down anything I don’t want to hear, and bottle it away as pain in the diaphragm. Pain/Anger/craving. I don’t want to feel it – so habitually I don’t, I just leave it there!
I ran this through the scenarios, tried to sit with the sensations... in brief :
The ex > she used me/hurt me > ill will > I wasn’t good enough > tearful> physical tightness in diaphragm.
Mum > manipulation > irritated > she doesn’t want to understand me > diaphragm
Dad > I’m a failure in his eyes> doesn’t love me as I am > diaphragm
Friend > confusion > I feel a freak for not doing feelings > she doesn’t understand me? > diaphragm
They all really boil down to “I’m not good enough, so they won’t love (like) me “... so I’ll push it all away under the diaphragm and ignore it, as I don’t do “feeling” things.
Today – trying to look beneath at this diaphragm tightness – I can’t find anything! ????
As I thought about the ex, felt the sensations in my diaphragm, it melted: currently there is kindly awareness to the fact I’ve beaten myself up for nothing. Thinking of Mum & Dad led to compassion. Thinking of my friend led to equanimity, kindly awareness and mostly made me smile.
I’m not sure whether I’m still burying something... I don’t think I am...but I haven’t found it easy . Tried to re-run this all again though, and its not currently causing the usual tearful reaction...whether this is all good now or because I’m in a good state at this moment...?
What do you think? What next?
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This sounds good :-) In all four situations, you were able to reflect on what your various reactions have been, and currently still are. I can imagine how difficult this work is, and I applaud your courage!
As with focusing on the diaphragm, the inquiry is underneath all of the reactions, including the stories, memories and so forth. A suggestion is not to think in terms of burying something (you'll never find that 'thing' within what is simply happening in experience either); rather, what sort of well-worn pattern are you, out of habit, following the groove of?
The intent is to stay with the basic sensate experience of what they aren't saying that you want to hear. A suggestion is to pick one, perhaps your Dad. "He never said I Accept You" or whatever most succinctly captures what you most wanted to hear. Intoning that, where is the pattern that dictates your response to that fact? It's that pattern which apparently makes necessary all of the reactions: where is that pattern?
If you start reacting (stories, painful memories, tightening in the diaphragm, etc.), back off a bit, or start over. The goal is to stay with just "He never said..." and search for why that means anything in particular, for the pattern that makes the reactions seem inevitable.
If you can stay with just that phrase, and feel the familiar tug of the incipient reactions but not fly away with them, you can look for the pattern.
Where is the pattern? Why react at all?
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I’m happy to keep looking, but so far the underlying pattern to them all is just to want to be loved/liked? I wonder why this isn’t enough?
I feel hurt when about anything that doesn’t make the ‘me’ loved?
Why react at all? Well I guess that’s because this sub-consciously shores up the sense that the ‘me’ really exists.
Because it isn’t how “I” want it to be... not in the perfect ‘me’ world... (laughs!!!)
Anyway maybe I’m still missing something. Will keep looking for a pattern.
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What you've found are words that come up that say "I want to be loved". You're looking for the pattern or groove of neurons (as I think you called it) that necessarily leads to that conclusion, those words.
By pattern I mean a thing, not a pattern in the sense of a thread they all have in common. If any words come up, or images, or memories: that ain't it :-) You’re looking for the "thing" itself from which all of these reactions spring.
It's as if there is a pattern of neurons, some machinery as it were, in there somewhere that takes "He didn't say..." and causes all the reactions: where is it? Where is that collection of neurons, that machinery? It's the reason all this pain comes about.
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Isn't it just habit...based on years of a false belief of a self? ...
I'll keep looking!
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That's one explanation... but where's the "habit"? You tend to posit things to explain what's happening: where are they within what is simply happening in experience???
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My initial response on reading your email was 'nothing' and laughter. Because earlier if I tried to relive any of the scenarios, once I'd seen they were just habit. That was all I was getting.
There is a growing image though that the vinyl record, the song of “me” has come to an end, but the needle hasn't lifted off the final groove... So it's going round and round because that's just what happens if it’s not seen to be finished... Just an empty habit.
But in my post-gate insomnia I thought, clearly I'm still missing something. Let's read that email again. On second reading at 3am, in a different space, its "I don't understand".
So I examined this instead ... I felt irritated > what is it I'm missing? > I don't understand > does that matter? Yes because there is fear of failure.
Logically, it strikes me that this could be a root groove, e.g. "I don't understand" why ... People don't get me/ want to manipulate me/ don't just love me etc.
If I'm still missing the point where in the "so I examined this again" paragraph should I stop to look for this "thing"?
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Try to stop prior to the irritation, the first reaction :-)
You read those words in my email, and it sounds like your initial thought was "I don't understand". Just stay there, with those words, and search for why you have to go on to irritation, the stories which unpack it (they don't get me, etc.) and the rest. If any more words come up, just go back to "I don't understand", even if it seems like you should be screaming those three words at the top of your lungs.
Mum. Dad. "I don't understand": so what? Those words are all that is happening. "I don't understand". Where is the "groove", or whatever you want to call that which is apparently dictating your responses to that basic fact?
This is like LU: you had believed all your life that there was a "me" in there somewhere. There had to be. And yet, in the end...
Where is the reason for any of these reactions? I used the somewhat more abstract "reason" as that which I was searching for. It may help to just look for that, if it helps you avoid coming up with new metaphors and analogies like the "record groove" or "years of habit".
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Today I noticed a turning inward, a contraction.
(Once I spotted that, an image followed of wanting to curl up in a safe fetal type position. Shut it all out)
Still looking! Trouble is it’s feeling stuff... habitually don’t notice feelings unless a brick lands on my head (Smile)
BTW the irritation was at my own stupidity and not understanding not at your email per se.
I actually thought it was good having the pithy short DP type response to shake up my brain!
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Perhaps a way to look at this is: the intent is to experience the incipient reactions, but not get carried away by them. Perhaps there has been a habit of just avoiding the feelings and emotions altogether, and now you are hesitant to even "go there" for fear that things will quickly get icky?
A suggestion is to bring the phrase to mind, and briefly recognize "yes, I can see where this can go...", but give yourself permission to NOT go that direction. Heck, acknowledge just prior to bringing up the phrase that things will start to ramp up a bit. Instead of following the reactions down the lane (which you do NOT have to do...), just feel the tug of incipient emotions and reactions, and turn back to the phrase, knowing that it's just those few words. The tug will likely remain, and that's the whole intent: notice the tug but don't follow it. It's not all or nothing, or about shutting the responses out altogether, but rather accepting that they start to arise and would love to take you on a ride. Stay In The Gap :-)
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So since Tuesday morning when I saw there was nothing behind my continued reaction to the old stories and laughed that it was just habit, there was some kind of heartfelt change and since then there has been a lot more equanimity around those stories, all old stories really. Or maybe it’s just complacent contentment – I guess only time will tell!
Even trying to get irritated with myself for “I don’t understand” has been difficult.
Your emails today remind me that I need to stay with what is simply happening in experience and should NOT follow the story OR my analytical mind! (doh! ) They were very helpful.
You’re probably right that there’s fear it might be ‘icky’ as you put it, ...or may that I will feel I need to run away, or curl up and pretend it’s not happening.
This evening, I experienced the biggest unpleasant vedana for days – as a car decided to pull out and nearly drove into the side of mine - I had to swerve and brake hard, I felt revved up and I have to say I swore, but then the story dropped quickly. Sadly, I didn’t manage to stay in the gap.
On return I’ve sat running “I don’t understand” over and over, and noted mild diaphragm tension in response to that - rising panic/fear of failure.
Then I’ve just read your email, about the FB doc you said I’d not seen the last 2 pages, which I took to suggest I should. So I’ve just read them. In a way I wish I hadn’t, as I feel I was almost there without the answer! But it may have taken a while longer to work out what the “thing” was from my sense of “rising panic/felt revved up”, - which suggest flight/fight/fright responses i.e. releases of adrenaline. So now I know what the “thing” is to look for – I just have to work out how to recognise it as a ‘tug’ before I react.
Does adrenaline still appear in a craving situation? I still get diaphragm tightness which might be one of my first clues. Well I suppose there must be seratonin or some other happy-hormone release.
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So... tell me more about Tuesday! What do typical situations (Mum, Dad, etc.) now feel like? It's been a couple days since then: what has the onset rate and strength been for the usual suspects, those recurring tensions, anxieties and dreads? Almost getting into an accident is a more acute example obviously: can you tell me more about what you thought/felt/did in the aftermath?
To clarify terms, the "thing" is desire somewhere in the gap, which the tug seems to be proof of. Call it a pattern, a bunch of habits, or whatever. Staying just with the tug (as opposed to the wild ride), and the mere words of "I don't understand this", what does the tug prove? Sure, memories, sensations, stories, etc. will flare up: so what. As you sit reading this, how do you respond to all of it?
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So Tuesday - Gosh it's a struggle post-LU to remember 24 hours ago! But I do remember that I was working through my scenarios. Like I said to you, I just had this image of the vinyl record, and that the song had stopped playing, but the needle was stuck in the 'run out groove' and occasionally something would jog the needle back on to the song, and that if I just chose to lift the needle off the record, the turntable would stop. And I saw that this was appropriate to all the old stories, that really there was nothing there but just a habit of reacting the way I did and had a chuckle. I can't get cross/irritated/worry about feeling loved or a failure or anything with any of these old scenarios.
But I'm not convinced I've yet stopped new stories - so yes I need still to look in the gap for this 'thing' - stay with the 'tug' as you put it. The near car accident, left me feeling a bit shaky. But I had dropped the story 200 yards after the event. I think I might be stopping the 'live' stories quicker but not yet getting them in the gap!
How do I respond to reading this email? And 'I don't understand'. mmmm in an equanimous kind of fashion really... Neutral.
I keep trying to shout the words inwardly to myself, recreate the irritation and I notice a very mild tension in my diaphragm and then I just don't believe the irritation, so it immediately melts.
My Mum phoned and started to be bossy, I just let it wash over me. Again I noticed a mild tension in the diaphragm then it all melted, I let her talk on, doing her thing. But there wasn't too much stimulus here. I had a wry smile to myself.
If I try and think of something I might crave - that also seems difficult, but the first thing I note is the diaphragm tense. I know you consider the diaphragm is just a sensation and not the 'thing' but, it's all I'm noticing at the mo after the 'yum/yuk' of the vedana .
So you asked what does the 'tug' prove, well nothing - it's just habit. Even noting the diaphragm tense, I can see it's just habit - and leads to the physical feeling of pushing away. And in flow - ie when the thoughts & selfing are very minimal - that diaphragm just relaxes, when of course everything is just hunky-dory as it is. But what happens in the gap after contact/vedana and before the sensation of diaphragm tightness? ... the million dollar question!?????
Still looking!!
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This is sounding very good :-) You don't always have much of an "aha" moment with fireworks and marching bands when things shift. A significant memory like the phonograph needle (that dates us...) can be something to come back to: is there a word or phrase that can bring that experience up, to remind you?
Please see how it goes the next day or three, around the typical and not-so-typical stuff: how intense do the reactions get? How long do they last? Even when desire is weakened, the gap still manages to get bridged: habits are hard things to break...
As stuff comes up, is it in your face or a bit at arm's length? Does it feel like you're in the play reading some lines, or out in the audience saying with a bit of objectivity saying "ooh, I bet I know what happens next...".
Also, how do things compare to a couple weeks ago, with your friend? your ex, etc.? Do those seem somewhat distant issues/memories? If so, is there some doubt as to whether they will stay there at a distance? What does it feel like to bring them to mind and not go into them?
Look forward to your next post :-)
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I was talking to another friend today as we went for a walk. Explaining the process, as I explained I remembered I feel an “urge” just before my diaphragm contracts. By urge I mean that the yum/yuk response has a feeling, maybe a surge of movement whether it’s toward/or pushing away. Is that what you mean by the ‘tug’? is this ‘thing’ I’ve been looking for?
Anyway it seems that looking for that urge or even surge of whatever, and failing that the diaphragm contraction may be the amber light to stop new craving/aversion, and my run out groove can be the red light for buying into old stories that arise.
I feel really calm. No cravings, no irritations.
I’m not counting my chickens yet, I’m a bit under the weather, so maybe it’s just my mood and the virus combining in false calm.
Re: how do things compare to a couple weeks ago, with your friend?, your ex, etc.? Do those seem somewhat distant issues/memories? If so, is there some doubt as to whether they will stay there at a distance? What does it feel like to bring them to mind and not go into them?
These seem very distant issues/memories, no I think they will stay at a distance. Bringing them to mind makes them feel like they are just memories, in fact almost like they happened to someone else. I feel completely emotionally detached from them. Which is fab.
I will let you know how things are in a few days, what comes up and whether it’s at arm’s length etc. I need to experience some real ‘now’ issues and see what happens.
Let me know if finally I’ve cracked the “thing” the “tug” sufficiently as far as you’re concerned. Or whether I have to go back into “I don’t understand” (I think if you reply “nah you still don’t understand” I will just laugh!)
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Diagnoses over email can be a challenge, but your words ring true :-) Good job!
That surge of what I would call "ooh, I should..." is a good example of the tug, that incipient craving/aversion that you might have previously just gone with, but now there is some space to look at it and go "meh, not so much...". It's what happens first, even before physical symptoms like the tightening in the diaphragm.
However, the "thing" searched for has always been that elusive thing called 'desire', which is a misinterpretation of the tug, if you will. Sure, there is an energy surge, memories rise up, etc., but is there anything actually behind it, making any sort of reaction necessary? The answer is a resounding 'no', and if you can stay with just the tug rather than the fully-bloomed set of reactions, you can see there's nothing behind it all. It may be fruitful to reflect on how you still want to know what the "thing" is you've been looking for, perhaps a bit like seeing through self but still wondering where the "thing" is that you were searching for. Habits are tough to break!
Maybe a good phrase to work with would be "I don't understand this... so what?" and watch the incipient push/pull fizzle out, and wonder what all the fuss was about (over and over again...).
Once the shift happens, what I call a "glide path" is next, where there will be updrafts here and there, but gravity will eventually win out, over the course of weeks/months/etc. It can take quite a while, depending on how much 'exquisite crap' you have, trying out new ways of (not-)doing things, and learning to trust that you are more than fine just letting things be the way they are. I kept up with my phrase, reminding myself on a regular basis to look for what's behind the current reaction/response, since a first seeing only weakens the reflex. Letting go doesn't mean you're a pushover, but rather you can better see what the best response to a situation is, and that it is often no particular response at all. If you stop reacting, there is an opportunity to be of benefit to others :-)
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I delayed from immediate response in case there was anything to say or ask... but at the moment there isn’t.
So far so good, much less selfing, and almost immediate noticing of the tug, or if not that, then diaphragm tension. At which point I’m stopping each time and looking at what is simply happening in experience. Generally, I’m in DE more, so it’s all good. Funnily enough, not just those scenarios but all memories at the moment seem to belong to someone else – I wonder if that will last? Or start to come back just as selfing increased with time. I guess the more I’m in DE, the less time for all the ol’ stuff anyway.
I realise this is just the beginning and I will keep looking. But I feel I have my tools now. I will let you know how things progress, when there is anything significant to note.
But in the meantime, I guess that’s it isn’t it?
I think the daily DP thing is great. I shall miss it!
Thank you so much for working with me, and helping me so much... thank you! thank you!
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Glad things continue to go well! No one has reported a reverse gear in this, so get used to it...
It could be that the memories will stay with the sense that they belong to someone else... or perhaps that they are something that can be "owned" in the first place? The Buddha sometimes described this phase as getting rid of "my-making" - that your experience is something owned and therefore you have a say over what should or should not be a part of it.
So yes, the daily regime is likely just coming back to DE whenever you feel the tug, and also recognizing (and perhaps celebrating) when adrenaline or other signs indicate that you are responding differently. There are perhaps lotsa habits to cycle through, but you're in shed mode, not accumulate mode :-)
It has been my pleasure and honor in this with "you" :-) Do keep dropping me a line every few days on how it's going.
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(a few days later)
I’m glad to hear the absence of “reverse gears” Smile.
Anyway, so far so good here.
Lots just happening here. ...the worldly winds tried their best yesterday... something that ‘should’ have been painful, just resulted in an arising of compassion. It feels different. I guess again time will tell.
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Good to hear from you, and glad the worldly winds don't seem to blow very hard any more. It's not like you're insensitive, but perhaps better able to engage and help others not that you're not reacting so strongly? It seems like up until now the reactions have been more of a chatter in the background?
Do you find yourself continuing on with the same sort of looking when stuff comes up? It may not always be kind to kick something when it's down, but in the case of desire and ill will, I believe there is a loophole to that rule... :-)
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Yes indeed to all the first paragraph and I’m still looking. Watch this space as they say!
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(a few more days later)
Well it was all going so well... then I fell back into an old habit with my Mum! i.e. getting cross and reacting when she started to have a go for no reason, but afterwards just felt compassion for her rather than ‘poor me’. But apart from that all is still good.
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Alas, to be expected :-) That stuff arises is one thing, what you do with it is another. It should evaporate fairly quickly, even if strong reactions do arise.
Give it a few weeks or months and let the Teflon continue to take hold. Maybe even have some fun with it :-)